Interview with Audrey Tang 唐鳳: Homeschooler Turned Civic Hacker

Last week, I had the incredible honor of interviewing Audrey Tang, a trailblazing figure in tech and government. Audrey is a former homeschooler, civic hacker, inaugural Minister of Digital Affairs in 🇹🇼 & the inaugural 🏳️‍⚧️ minister in the 🌐. Along with E. Glen Weyl and community, she is co-author of Plurality and co-founder of the Plurality Community at Plurality.net.

In what I can only describe as a ❤️-to-❤️ conversation, we journey through a vast sea of topics, ranging from the role of technology in building pluralism and democracy, to Audrey’s own homeschooling experience and how it influenced her. We talk about learning, “anti-social media”, the fediverse, marketing, building startups, reverse mentoring, markets, and even dive into why democracy and pluralism matter. Audrey is a living embodiment of the word “plurality,” an effervescent being of light, a wise insightful mentor, and I couldn’t help but feel truly happy, whole, inspired, energized and connected in her presence.

Feeling so at ease and so fully accepted, I opened up to her about the most intimate questions and concerns in my mind and heart, and her insights were invaluable. Having her on the show was so energizing, such a joy - moreover, a deeply transformative experience. I feel so privileged to share this conversation, this transformative moment in my life, and this extraordinary Plurality movement with all of you.

As Audrey would say, “Enjoy!”

❤️ A sincere plea: Join the conversation

It’s my deep hope that in the spirit of plurality, you will join this conversation, by sharing your comments and questions in the Substack, YouTube, and in the Plurality community at plurality.net I look very much forward to engaging with every one of you.

Show Notes and Resources

Plurality.net

• Plurality.net (Get the book for free, donate or buy it or all of the above) https://www.plurality.net/

• Plurality Discord Community: https://discord.com/invite/YWSDRqdW5n

Polis Survey Tool

• “Polis is a real-time system for gathering, analyzing and understanding what large groups of people think in their own words, enabled by advanced statistics and machine learning.” https://pol.is/home

• How Taiwan Solved the Uber Problem: https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-study/building-consensus-compromise-uber-taiwan

All about Audrey Tang 唐鳳

1st digital minister in 🇹🇼 & 1st 🏳️‍⚧️ minister in the 🌐. pronouns: */*

Audrey’s bio from audreyt.org

• “Audrey Tang, Taiwan’s 1st Digital Minister (2016-2024), is celebrated for her pioneering efforts in digital democracy. Named one of TIME’s “100 Most Influential People in AI” in 2023, Tang was instrumental in shaping Taiwan’s internationally acclaimed COVID-19 response and in safeguarding the 2024 presidential and legislative elections from foreign cyber interference.

• Tang is now focused on broadening her vision of Plurality — technology for collaborative diversity — to inspire global audiences.”

• Audrey Tang Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Tang

• Audrey Tang Official Speaker Page: http://www.digitalminister.one

• Taiwan Ministry of Digital Affairs: https://moda.gov.tw/en/

• Audrey Tang on X: https://twitter.com/audreyt

• Time: The 100 Most Influential People in AI: https://time.com/collection/time100-ai/6308288/audrey-tang/

• "g0v" (gov-zero) movement in Taiwan: https://g0v.tw/intl/en/

E. Glen Weyl, Audrey’s Co-founder and an amazing human in his own right

Glen Weyl is Founder of RadicalxChange, Microsoft Research's Plural Technology Collaboratory & Plurality Institute & co-author of Radical Markets

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Weyl

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eglenweyl/

• X: https://twitter.com/glenweyl

• Official Website: https://glenweyl.com/

Block Split

• The conference where I met Audrey: https://blocksplit.net/

Experimental Education (Taiwan’s version of homeschooling)

• “Experimental education movement” led by Audrey’s mother, Lee-Ya Ching https://english.cw.com.tw/article/article.action?id=39

• Experimental Education in Taiwan https://hslda.org/post/experimental-education-in-taiwan

Audrey’s childhood influences

• Du Hui-Ping 杜惠平, her high school principal from 北政國中

• Taiwan’s international science fair https://twsf.ntsec.gov.tw/Article.aspx?a=276&lang=2

• Universität des Saarlandes where Audrey’s father, Tang Kuang-hua (唐光華), did his PhD https://www.uni-saarland.de/en/home.html

• 1989 Democracy Movement https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48445934

• Dial-up BBS (Bulletin Board Systems) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system

• 1993 martial law being lifted in Taiwan  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_Taiwan

Audrey’s Homeschooling Resources and Influences

• Oregon-Oxford Debate: Audrey Tang's mother, Lee Ya-ching (李雅卿), was interested in the Oregon-Oxford debate format https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/oxford-oregon-debate-how-tos-and-tips/38950413

• Project Gutenberg https://gutenberg.org/

• arXiv (e-print archive) https://arxiv.org/

• Socratic method used by Audrey’s father, Tang Kuang-hua (唐光華) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

Recording interviews: More about Audrey’s process and reason for recording interviews

• Interview with French public radio: https://moda.gov.tw/en/press/background-information/5401

• Reprogramming Power: Audrey Tang is bringing hacker culture to the state: https://apolitical.co/solution-articles/en/reprogramming-power-audrey-tang-is-bringing-hacker-culture-to-the-state

Big Ideas

• Tilting Stream of Dharma in Buddhism: https://www.academia.edu/99192663/The_Tilting_Stream_of_Dharma_Metaphor_in_Mah%C4%81y%C4%81na_Buddhist_Exegesis

• Design Thinking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_thinking

• Alexis de Tocqueville Democracy in America*

Social Media

• The Fediverse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse

• Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/explore

• Threads.net: https://www.threads.net/

• Community notes on Twitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Notes

• Substack: https://substack.com/home

Ways for non-technical people to get involved

• Sitra national innovation fund: https://www.sitra.fi/en/

• Wikipedia: https://www.wikipedia.org/

• Creative Commons: https://creativecommons.org/

Cultural institutions working with civic tech people

• RadicalXchange (find a chapter near you) https://www.radicalxchange.org/community/chapters/

• Creative commons: https://creativecommons.org/

• Wikimedia commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

• Open knowledge foundation creative festival: https://blog.okfn.org/category/events/okfest/

• Republica community in Berlin: https://re-publica.com/en

• Code for American in the US: https://codeforamerica.org/

• Serpentine galleries: https://www.serpentinegalleries.org/

Referenced by Manisha

• Independent Study In California: https://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/eo/is/

• Parent-Led Kindergarten co-ops in Germany as creative approach to homeschooling in a country where it’s illegal: https://www.bage.de/was-sind-elterninitiativen

• China’s School of One : https://news.cgtn.com/news/7a41444e35677a6333566d54/index.html

• Permission Marketing by Seth Godin

• Studies linking social media to teen mental health crisis

Social Media is a Major Cause of the Mental Illness Epidemic in Teen Girls. Here’s the Evidence.

• Manisha’s substack

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